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On this week’s podcast, Laila Lalami says ISIS wants to eliminate what they call “the grey zone” between their Caliphate and “the Crusaders,” even though that’s where most of the world’s Muslims live.
Also: Joan Walsh talks about the real reason we don’t have gun control: far-right fantasies about Obama coming to take your guns.
And we remember Chernobyl, thanks to the greatest writer about that disaster, Svetlana Alexievich—she was awarded the Nobel Prize for literature this week. Amy Wilentz and Tom Lutz comment.
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Also: The New York Times coverage of Bernie Sanders has been condescending—remember the page one story, “Bernie won’t kiss your baby”? AMY WILENTZ reviews the record — she’s a longtime contributing editor at The Nation, and she teaches Literary Journalism at UC Irvine.
If possessing two AR-15s and 2,500 rounds of ammo makes you a terror suspect, then we need to investigate several million Americans, most of whom are 
Also: Katha Pollitt says the refugee crisis has shown the worst, and the best, of Europe; now, she says, we have a chance to do the right thing.
And JOHN NICHOLS comments on today’s news about the mass shooting and on gun violence in America, and in American politics, today.
Plus: Football has America’s biggest TV audience, especially on Thanksgiving weekend: but Dave Zirin, sports editor of The Nation, asks
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And we’ll have a music segment: the award-winning writer
An “epic recipe fail”: Grape salad for Thanksgiving? In Minnesota? How could the New York Times get it so wrong?
LAILA LALAMI talks about the origins of ISIS, and what to do about it now. Laila grew up in Morocco; her novel The Moor’s Account was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize.
Also: The New York Times coverage of Bernie Sanders has been condescending, and terrible: journalist AMY WILENTZ comments on the recent page one story ‘Bernie Sanders Won’t Kiss Your Baby.‘
Plus: CHARLES BLOW, op-ed columnist for the New York Times, talks about growing up poor and black in rural Louisiana; his book Fire Shut Up in My Bones is out now in paperback.
And TERRY GROSS explains the difference between interviewing Hillary and interviewing Bill. It’s her 40th anniversary hosting ‘Fresh Air’; she’s done 13,000 interviews. (Recorded in 2004)
Plus: Novelist KURT VONNEGUT remembers “learning to walk around looking tough” growing up in Indianapolis. Watch
Also: JOHN COLTRANE in 1966 was living on Long Island. One afternoon, Frank Kofsky took the train out to interview him. Coltrane picked him up at the station. They drove around town. They stopped to talk. (Coltrane died less than a year later.) Watch 
